tubliss?

[Swiss]

Popup, many years ago when I started building some wheels for my dirt bikes I was told that you have to grind off the spokes when they tighten up through the nipples because they are too long. Those days you used a hand drill and a round headed grinding stone. Now you can use a high speed cutting wheel and clip them right off. That will prevent you from having to double or triple tape the protruding spokes.
Just a tip from the old days.

Swiss

[eyspy]

I keep re reading this thread and for my 2 cent contribution this is what I am going to attempt next time I have to have my tyre off.

After much research on this topic in other forums I will combine a few methods for a home made set up.
1st I will completely clean the inside of my rim
2nd a very small dob of grease on the spoke nipple inside the rim
3rd a bit bigger dob of silicone completely covering that grease blob
4th either smear the complete lower inside area with a smoothe coat of silicone or use a piece of bicycle tube cut in half to form a 2" wife flat strip an then use contact adhesive and stick the whole thing over the lower nipple area and then perhaps sealing the edges with a smear of silicone
5th insert a tubless valve and thats it !! should work ? I hope ????

Run my Pirelli mt43 at about 6 psi and all should be good

[petem]

It'll be interesting to see whether you can make it work. Of course there's also the possibility of leaks around the tyre beads as well as through the spokes, so you'll need to be careful not to damage the beads at all while fitting the tyre, and make sure the rim is smooth where the bead sits on it. I guess it's no different to a normal tubeless rim and tyre which has to seal at that point anyway, I just wonder if there's any difference in the inside of the rim when it's not designed to be tubeless compared with a rim that is? I have no idea whether there is any difference, just wondering. I guess you'll be fitting the tubeless version of the MT43 so at least you know the tyre's designed for it?

Running at 6psi are you going to fit a rim lock? If so, how will you make sure the hole around the bolt doesn't leak?

I guess as you're going to run low pressures there will be less tendency for the tyre to leak and a slow leak might not bother you anyway so long as it stays up long enough to ride for a day. Could be a cheaper solution than TUbliss if you can make it work, and tyre changing would be easier in future with no tube/mousse/TUbliss bladder to worry about! Let us know how you get on.

[bushmechanic]

the spokes are easy, don't need rimlocks just use screws

problem is the bead

first you need to be able to get the bead to come out then you need to get it to stay there while riding over rocks and bumps and all kinds of stuff

you can get rims with a raised ridge to help like the roadbikes or if you use 15psi + its fine without.

on our normal rims under 15 psi even with 10 screws a side the bead needs to be phsysically glued to the rim. cyanoacrilate or methylmethacrylate is about the best there is for rubber to ally.

[eyspy]

first you need to be able to get the bead to come out then you need to get it to stay there while riding over rocks and bumps and all kinds of stuff

Wouldnt it stay there if i managed to get it to pop out in the first place ? With my mt43 i am only running about 6psi which is not a lot of air to hold it there, but it does. With the method i mentioned whats the diff in it not holding there, i will still have the same amount of air, just no tube ????

[bushmechanic]

well everything is worth trying, the difference with a tube is the bead can move around and the air doesn't leak out.

without a tube 1 tiny leak when you ride over a rock can reduce the pressure by 1/2 a psi or so then enough rocks and you're down to 4 or whatever the minimum is then it just pops off.

[Chas]

first you need to be able to get the bead to come out then you need to get it to stay there while riding over rocks and bumps and all kinds of stuff

Wouldnt it stay there if i managed to get it to pop out in the first place ? With my mt43 i am only running about 6psi which is not a lot of air to hold it there, but it does. With the method i mentioned whats the diff in it not holding there, i will still have the same amount of air, just no tube ????

An advantage of the Tubliss system in this situation is that the high pressure Tubliss carcass will hold the tire beads against the wheel rims regardless of the air pressure in the tire, i.e. the air pressure can be run very low without fear of the tire becoming unseated from the wheel.

[bushmechanic]

only an advantage eh? sounds like the entire tubliss concept

the only thing i don't like about it is they talk up how light it is without giving any specific data then we find out its heavier than a standard tube. not very honest

as a weed proof tuff product and an idea in general I like it.

[petem]

only an advantage eh? sounds like the entire tubliss concept

The fact that the tyre is very unlikely to come off the rim and can still be ridden even if completely flat is one advantage but not the only one. You're also less likely to get a flat when running low pressures as you can't pinch the inner tube. And if you do get a flat from something puncturing the tyre, you're much more likely to be able to seal it successfully with something like Tyre Slime or a tubeless tyre repair plug as it is effectively a tubeless tyre (so a trail-side repair is quicker and easier than replacing the tube as you don't even need to take the wheel out). And...

the only thing i don't like about it is they talk up how light it is without giving any specific data then we find out its heavier than a standard tube. not very honest

I was running a heavy duty inner tube in the rear wheel on my old Husky. Replacing that and the old rim lock with a TUbliss and it's built-in rim lock reduced the weight of the wheel by 902g. Losing nearly 1kg of rotating mass (and unsprung weight) made a noticeable difference.

If you're running a standard inner tube and/or no rim lock (or a very light one) obviously you wouldn't save as much weight and for all I know maybe nothing at all or even be heavier. I don't know anyone among the people I ride with who's *not* using HD tubes and a rim lock so they could all save weight, but that might not be true for everyone. If you're sure it would be heavier for you and its other advantages aren't enough of a benefit to you personally to make up for that, then I wouldn't suggest fitting them.

[eyspy]

this is all getting too hard......so far it's not a problem running very low psi in my MT43, if it does then I mights just stuff the whole thing with straw

[bushmechanic]

the weights from jockulars thread

here is a bit more tech jibber for you all in relation to wheel weights.
tubliss front weighed in at 750g,which is 750g lighter than the tube i pulled out(h/duty i think) bridgestone h/duty tube weighed in at 1.5kg.
tubliss rear weighed in at 800g,which is 900g lighter than the tube i pulled out(std tube i think) bridgestone std tube weighed in at 1.7kg

Michelin airstop MD tube front 500gm rimlock at a guess is 70gm

rear 18" michelin airstop MF tube 576gm rear rimlock weight approx 100gm.

so its lighter to use the std setup if you don't mind changing tubes every 3000km or so.

you could prolly argue that the tubliss will handle better cause of sidewall fexuralations lower available pressures and it has its mass closer to the axle than the tube but for $15 each I like the tubes in sand. for rocks and stuff that need a HD tube the tubliss would better.

[Chas]

the only thing i don't like about it is they talk up how light it is without giving any specific data then we find out its heavier than a standard tube. not very honest

I have weighed both front and rear Tubliss systems. They weighed the same as standard thin tubes plus one rim lock, and much less than HD tubes.

[bushmechanic]

thats some heavy tubes did you include the rimlocks?

as weed and I have It the front tubliss setup is 180gm heavier than the std michy tube + berg rimlock and the rear tubliss setup is 124 gms heavier than the std michy tube + berg rimlock.

sorry if im sounding negative towards the tubliss. I nearly bought some when they were first available, just to try out because I like the idea.

glad that I did not however becasue I would have been extremely pissed off to have spent all that cash and got heavier wheels after falling for all their hype about being lighter. I'm just putting the weights up here so people can make an informed choice, I don't care what they do with their money after that.

[Zorm]

Hi Guys

I have been running Tubliss front and rear for over 2000klm, i reckon i have spent atleast a quarter of that time riding with a flat front , big advantage is the tyre stays on the rim , and doesnt slow you down too much if at all, a couple of the guys i ride with say i should ride with flat tyres all the time

Also had a flat rear one day after hitting a ledge way too hard and bent the rim letting all the air from the tyre part as there was no seal, once again the tyre stayed where it should untill i made it to a servo where i borrowed a shifter and straightened the rim, pumped them up again and had no problems since

what i really like about them is how easy it is to change tyres, especialy the rear

Cheers

Zorm
FE570